Posts by Apostate Kate

146

The Trinity... is it a false teaching as the WTBTS claims?

by Honesty in

in the old testament god revealed himself to his chosen people, the israelites as i am:.

ex 3:14-15 - god replied to moses, i am who i am.

this is what you are to say to the israelites: i am .

Apostate Kate

I believe he is immortal..yes.. Created, yes.. Col. 1:15 NIV "he is the first born of all creation"

Colossians 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

Colossians 1:15 who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.WEB

Colossians 1:15 who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation;ASV

Colossians 1:15 Who <hos> is <esti> the image <eikon> of the invisible <aoratos> God <theos>, the firstborn <prototokos> of every <pas> creature <ktisis>:

. PROTOTOKOS does not mean created. It means, and was used in Greek, to explain in Greek Hebrew terms that Jesus is PREEMMINENT. Over all things. The writer NEVER meant for anyone to assume that this scripture meant Jesus was created. He never was. He could not have been because His Father, where He came from, is GOD and GOD never had a beginning.

prwtotokoV prototokos pro-tot-ok'-os

first-born (usually as noun, literally or figuratively):-firstbegotten(-born).

prwtoV protos pro'-tos

contracted superlative of 4253; foremost (in time, place, order or importance):--before, beginning, best, chief(-est), first (of all), former.

pro pro pro

a primary preposition; "fore", i.e. in front of, prior (figuratively, superior) to:--above, ago, before, or ever. In the comparative, it retains the same significations.

Colossians 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

Hebrews 1:6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

To say that when Jesus was called firtstborn meant that he was created, is to say He was created at the time of his human birth. The Watchtower LIED again about what firstborn means. Either they know the truth about protokos and the governing body are following followers anyway, or they really believe it and are victims of victims. Ether way it is WRONG. Jesus was never referred to as having had a begining or was created. That word is ktizo.

Mark 13:19 For <gar> in those <ekeinos> days <hemera> shall be <esomai> affliction <thlipsis>, such <toioutos> as <hoios> was <ginomai> not <ou> from <apo> the beginning <arche> of the creation <ktisis> which <hos> God <theos> created <ktizo> unto <heos> this time <nun>, neither <kai> <ou me> shall be <ginomai>.

Jesus is preemminent in all things.

146

The Trinity... is it a false teaching as the WTBTS claims?

by Honesty in

in the old testament god revealed himself to his chosen people, the israelites as i am:.

ex 3:14-15 - god replied to moses, i am who i am.

this is what you are to say to the israelites: i am .

Apostate Kate

Due to what happened to my child and my work with Silent Lambs, I have no reason to love or defend the WT at all. I hope they implode. But I have a few questions. If Jesus is the mediator between God and man, how can he be God? A mediator works between two different parties. He is never one of those parties, is he? Jesus also said something to the effect that "I am ascending to your God and MY God". If Jesus "has a God", it appears that he is not equal to God Almighty, although I admit he is called "a god" in scripture. There were also things Jesus didn't know, but said that God did know. So he can't share the same mind or brain as God has. And when Jesus was dead, remembering Eccl. verses about "the dead know nothing" and similar concepts, how could he know 3 days had passed and it was time to "resurrect himself"? If he's "out", then who woke him up in time? These are some of the things I think might apply to this discussion. But I do feel it will never be settled for sure. Maybe on Judgment Day, if that ever comes. I don't care anymore because I'm now a confirmed agnostic. I don't believe in God and I don't believe it's possible to prove his existence or disprove it. Thank you all for your thoughts.

I'm so sorry about your daughter. I hope that Silent Lambs has been able to help you get justice. As far as the Deity of Christ the Watchtower had us programmed to think in finite terms. How can Jesus be the Son and God at the same time. I know this may sound quite juvenile but God can do anything He wants to, He is God. Now if it were possible to cross a Human with a lion, you would get one strange looking creature. It would have power and intellect. Impossible yes, but the Bible tells us that nothing is impossible with God. Matthew 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When his mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph, before they came together she was found with child of the Holy Spirit. ASV Matthew 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.KJV The Holy Spirit, Holy Ghost is God, not some elusive active force. Mary was impregnated by God. By His Holy Spirit. Then His child was given authority over all things. This Son was with Him from the beginning which there really was never a beginning because God is infinite. This is the hardest concept for us humans to understand. Everything about our lives is finite. When we gaze into the heavens we can see the black spaces between the stars, thus infinity. There is no end to space, God, or His human/God Son. Isaiah 57:15 For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones.KJV Here is a verse we were never taught; Ecclesiastes 12:7 And the dust returns to the earth as it was, And the spirit returns to God who gave it. When King Solomon said that in the other passage about the dead know nothing, we have to take in context what he was talking about, to whom and why. He was rambling on about vanity! Not the eternal soul. Of course the Watchtower used that to brainwash us to believe that when we die we die. Not true according to the Bible in its entirety. Whether one believes or not that is purely an individuals choice. What burns me up though is the misunderstanding the WTBTS has left us with. There is one way to interpret Scripture and one way only. That is to interpret it the way the writer meant for it to be understood. That is not impossible to do either.

146

The Trinity... is it a false teaching as the WTBTS claims?

by Honesty in

in the old testament god revealed himself to his chosen people, the israelites as i am:.

ex 3:14-15 - god replied to moses, i am who i am.

this is what you are to say to the israelites: i am .

Apostate Kate

just2questions. if jesus is god, who said "this is my son..." on more than one occassion? perhaps jesus was a ventriloquist, but i can't find scripture for this. if the holy spirit is god why does it have a description instead of a name? " jehova" is a name, " jesus" is a name, " the holy spirit" is not a name.

Jesus is not God the Father, He is God the Son. Isaiah 9:6-7 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this. John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. The Holy Ghost is not an active force. That's another LIE!

146

The Trinity... is it a false teaching as the WTBTS claims?

by Honesty in

in the old testament god revealed himself to his chosen people, the israelites as i am:.

ex 3:14-15 - god replied to moses, i am who i am.

this is what you are to say to the israelites: i am .

Apostate Kate

You see this is the exact promblem with the trinity doctrine. To prove it you have to play the connect the dots game. If the trinity doctrine was true, why isn't there simply one verse in the bible that says Jehovah, Jesus, and and the holy spirit are God

1 John 5:6-12 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not with the water only, but with the water and with the blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is the truth. For there are three who bear witness, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and the three agree in one. If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for the witness of God is this, that he hath borne witness concerning his Son. He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in him: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he hath not believed in the witness that God hath borne concerning his Son. And the witness is this, that God gave unto us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath the life; he that hath not the Son of God hath not the life.

1 John 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

Mary=human, God=God, Human+God=?

146

The Trinity... is it a false teaching as the WTBTS claims?

by Honesty in

in the old testament god revealed himself to his chosen people, the israelites as i am:.

ex 3:14-15 - god replied to moses, i am who i am.

this is what you are to say to the israelites: i am .

Apostate Kate

If one can accept; Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Then it should not be impossible to accept that Jesus is; Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

The WTBTS screwed this up in my head. It really is quite simple. Mary was human, God is God. Jesus was Son of man as he is fully human, and Son of God as he is fully God.

The Greek text is clear on one thing, Jesus was never created. The word for first-born is not the same as for created. Jesus is first-born as in preemminent over all things that ever were.

Mark 13:19 For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.

Mark 13:19 For <gar> in those <ekeinos> days <hemera> shall be <esomai> affliction <thlipsis>, such <toioutos> as <hoios> was <ginomai> not <ou> from <apo> the beginning <arche> of the creation <ktisis> which <hos> God <theos> created <ktizo> unto <heos> this time <nun>, neither <kai> <ou me> shall be <ginomai>.

ktizw ktizo ktid'-zo

(through the idea of proprietorship of the manufacturer); to fabricate, i.e. found (form originally):--create, Creator, make. [Jesus was never ktizo]

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Romans 8:29 For <hoti> whom <hos> he did foreknow <proginosko>, he <proorizo> also <kai> did predestinate <proorizo> to be conformed <summorphos> to the image <eikon> of his <autos> Son <huios>, that <eis> he <autos> might be <einai> the firstborn <prototokos> among <en> many <polus> brethren <adelphos>.

prwtotokoV prototokos pro-tot-ok'-os first-born (usually as noun, literally or figuratively):--firstbegotten-born

contracted superlative of 4253; foremost (in time, place, order or importance):--before, beginning, best, chief(-est), first (of all), former.

a primary preposition; "fore", i.e. in front of, prior (figuratively, superior) to:--above, ago, before, or ever. In the comparative, it retains the same significations.

Jesus was never made or created. The thing is this; everyone has a choice to believe the Bible is the Word of God or not. What is wrong is continueing to believe the LIEs the Watchtower told us. The LIES about what the Bible really says. The biggest lie that they told me was that Jesus was an angel, I could not worship an angel, talk to an angel, have a personal relationship with an angel, yet this angel was my; Savior, Mediator, Judge, Friend, Wonderful Counselor, Prince of Peace, Everlasting Father! (Isa 9:6)

LIES! More JW LIES! He is not, never was, never will be an angel.

53

Disfellowshipped and lonely

by ryry in

jw
friends

i was disfellowshipped in 2003. systematically my family stopped talking to me.

i am only 22 years old and i feel a big void in my life.

what can i do to feel better?

Apostate Kate

Welcome! You did the right thing.

This Forum is more than just a place to talk about our JW experiences. It is THE information super hwy of what is going on with the Society, and the place to meet life long friends. Many here have met in person, so it is not just some obscure little board.

The most important thing to remember is, you are not alone. Most here have been through family shunning. Never lose hope that they will see the real truth, about ~~the truth~~ the lie.

Love to You~Kate

27

I am pregnant!!!!!

by snarf in

jw
friends

i just found out that i am pregnant and just wanted to share the exciting news !!!

!

Apostate Kate

Awe CONGRATULATIONS!!!

Baby's are awesome! Is this your first?

30

Post a scripture that JW's don't follow

by JH in

jw
friends

.

love your enemies, like yourself

Apostate Kate

However I could pray for them to come to repentence, so I don't hate them. I call a snake a snake. We have Ray Franz and his awesome testimony as proof that some were just power hungry followers who seen the problems but didn't have the balls to stand up to them.

30

Post a scripture that JW's don't follow

by JH in

jw
friends

.

love your enemies, like yourself

Apostate Kate

Matthew 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
They don't even like me.

How do you feel about them in light of Matthew 5:44?

Personally I feel deep sadness for the sincere gullible ones who truly are "victims of victims and followers of followers" but I have a righteous anger for the ones who KNOW it is wrong, write their drivel, kick the victims when they are down and get a power rush from it all. Matthew 12:34 Ye offspring of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh. Ye offspring of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? Realizing the hopelessness of this attempt to get an honest judgment out of dishonest hearts, Jesus plainly informs them as to the condition of their hearts. Their very souls were full of poison like vipers. Their sin lay not in their words, but in a condition of heart which made such words possible. The heart being as it was, the words could not be otherwise. "What is in the well will be in the bucket" (Trapp). [Fourfold Gospel Commentary]

The Good Old Boys at Bethel are SNAKES. The ones who KNOW this crap is crap and do it anyway because of the darkness in their hearts.

185

The Watchtower Society killed my website

by Elsewhere in

jw
friends

you can thank the watchtower society for this.. here is an email from my hosting company:.

unfortunately it appears your site/account was involved in violation of using copyrighted material involved with watch tower bible and tract society of pennsylvania.".

as a result of this abuse and activity, we will be unable to reinstate this account for any reason.. in addition, due to the nature of this abuse and the risk of transferring sensitive or illegal content if we were to provide you your files, we will be unable to provide with backups.. it is unfortunate that this has occurred, and we are aware that more than likely this was not your intent to host, however the fact remains it did exist and complaints were made.

Apostate Kate

All this does is inspire me to use up all the free space my ISP offers with my paid fees. My next move, now, How do I promote it? How do we hook up to search engines?